Comedian Bill Maher and ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith spoke out on Sunday, disputing claims that President-elect Donald Trump is a “horrible racist,” based on their personal experiences and observations of him.

The discussion took place on Maher’s podcast, Club Random, where the two men argued that Trump’s past relationships with black Americans and his increasing support from Hispanic and Black voters during his presidential campaigns suggest that accusations of racism against him are unfounded.

Maher and Smith both pointed to the fact that Trump’s victory over Vice President Kamala Harris was partially fueled by increased support from black and Hispanic men.

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The two public figures questioned how Trump could be labeled as a racist when black men, in particular, had supported him more in each of his runs for office.

“So there are all these, you know, white boys are talking to me about Trump, and ‘He’s a terrible racist,’ and it’s like, ‘Well, how could the black people vote for him more each time?’” Maher asked during the conversation.

“And, you know, they didn’t vote for him a lot more, but men did, okay? And I said, you know what? I don’t want to speak for all black people… You tell me if I was wrong or right,” Maher continued, explaining his view that many black Americans don’t automatically view white people as racist.

He stated that while black Americans may believe Trump holds racist views, they might view him as “just a crazy person” rather than someone who harbors deep-seated hatred toward minorities.

Smith, responding to Maher’s remarks, agreed, saying, “Being a black man, you don’t look at white people and automatically think they’re racist. You automatically know they’re different than you, that they think different than you, that they come from a different cultural background and experience things differently than they do.”

He added that Trump has not changed his rhetoric over the years, reinforcing his stance that the president-elect’s words and actions should not be immediately labeled as racist.

Smith then touched on Trump’s long history of associating with prominent black figures, pointing out that, despite what critics may say, he had always been accepted by black people in the past.

“We know that the people that he was friends with all of these years, he talked just like that around y’all and y’all didn’t have no problem with it,” Smith explained. “Don’t act like you have a problem now.”

In response to comments made by radio host Charlamagne Tha God in October, who argued that Trump’s relationships with black figures did not necessarily absolve him of racism accusations, Maher clarified that Trump “had some genuine black friends and black folks who like him.”

“I wouldn’t call myself his friend by any stretch of the imagination back in the day. But I’ve told this on many occasions.

I said this in my recent appearance on The View,” Smith said. He recalled attending events with Trump, such as boxing matches and Knicks games, where Trump’s easygoing demeanor earned him respect in the black community. “All the brothers found him to be cool. They found him to be very cool,” Smith said, noting that Trump was well-liked for his knowledge of sports and his willingness to challenge the establishment, which resonated with many black Americans.

Maher, further expanding on his views, suggested that Trump’s issue was less about racism and more about narcissism. “I don’t think his motivation is ‘I don’t like black people,’” Maher said. “I think his motivation is ‘Everybody must love me.’” Both Maher and Smith agreed that Trump’s actions and words seemed more driven by a desire for attention and admiration than by racial animus.

“I have never called him a racist. I have never spoken about him that way. Ever,” Smith asserted. “Not one time. Not one time. Because I knew him beforehand.”

The discussion highlighted the ongoing debate surrounding Trump’s stance on race and his relationship with minority communities.

While critics continue to label him as a racist, figures like Maher and Smith provide a different perspective based on personal experience and the support Trump has garnered from various demographics over the years.